You will find it at the Pavii Family's Sheepfold, which is west of Saint Eleor's Abbey. once again you will need a bunch of torches. Coming from old money. Speak with the lady to the left of the table to start the. Wartales > General Discussions > Topic Details. 1 - Plateau Stables 2 - Stromkapp 3 - Tiltren Jail 4 - Guard Outpost 5 - Sinister Cave 6 - Woodland Farm 7 - Rat Infestation #1 valuable box in drombach tomb. Got all together around 500h of gameplay form now and before. #44. It is southeast of the Small Trackers’ Camp and. . Sworn Enemies is an optional Objective in Drombach County. Speak to the lady on the bridge (Krieda for this image) to get. It starts at Ganderwald Castle which is southwest of New-Asthel. Full Detailed Map Guide (v1. The closest will be Vertuse Province. Explore the room to your right and shine the light in the top left of the room to see a Blue Symbol. The Exit UI element is there but doesn't work. Next come Attributes with Brutes, Warriors, Swordsmen, and Spearman have Strength as their trademark that drives harm, and Rangers and Archers. The Ranger is one of six classes in Wartales and it plays similarly to a Thief/Assassin in other RPGs. Wartales > General Discussions > Topic Details. The Fate of Drombach • The Price of Drinking • First Aid (Drombach) • In Vivo • Discreet and Daring • Rational Beliefs • Experiments and Consequences; Maps • Tiltren County. You find it at the Rouste Field which is northeast of Lisbeth’s Arena. Choosing Sides Objective Guide. T0@st. Any choice you make is cosmetic. 0 Release update has finally arrived, but before we get into the fun stuff we just wanted to take a moment to. Wartales Vertruse Province Map. . Wartales officially launched out of Early Access on April 12, 2023! Wartales is an open world RPG in which you lead a group of mercenaries in their search for wealth across a massive medieval universe. 3/ make it bleed and poison it as much as you can, because the damage will be proportional to its health. Started when 1. An Eye for an Eye is an optional objective in County of Arthes. 0 came out and it was working fine. No good to man or beast. Wartales is an open world RPG in which you lead a group of mercenaries in their search for wealth across a medieval continent torn. 05:20 Puzzle on the wall. A bit of tankiness won’t hurt. Wartales officially launched out of Early Access on April 12, 2023! Wartales is an open world RPG in which you lead a group of mercenaries in their search for wealth across a massive medieval universe. You will see an Edoranian Historian as well as. The Fate of Drombach • The Price of Drinking • First Aid (Drombach) • In Vivo • Discreet and Daring • Rational Beliefs • Experiments and Consequences; Maps • Tiltren County. 266 Online. The Unlucky Charm is an optional Objective in Vertruse Province. ColL 15. I am become death: Find the General’s treasure. Enter the tomb and you will start in a room with two statues of Horoun and Narses. Have your one or two tanks aggro the. Battle's done in 2 turns because he can't kill them with the Willpower up. Its vision is based on movement. Tiltren Tomb of the Ancients WalkthroughWartales officially launched out of Early Access on April 12, 2023! Wartales is an open world RPG in which you lead a group of mercenaries in their search for wealth across a massive medieval universe. 3/ make it bleed and poison it as much as you can, because the damage will be proportional to its health. . The Lumbermill only has one inhabitant (who goes by Ines in the image) who claims that nothing is wrong. 20216) with annotations. Vertruse Tomb: Once complete, you’ll be able to research and gain a Legendary Weapon titled Nepti’s Axe (one-handed axe). Behold, warriors of Wartales, a new region awaits your arrival! The land of Drombach lies to the south of the Kingdom of Alazar, a perilous county shrouded in icy mountains and fierce windswept plateaus. Yeah Gosenberg had a better storyline then Drombach. 1/ engage your most heavily armoured guy with the misshappen creeper. #1. We marked Rat infestations, Caves, Mines, Cities and many more. I am 240 hours in with a party size of 20 with a mix of level 8 and 9 and the Creeper boss is like 3000+ hp which is fine. Tomb exploration can be a tough cookie in Wartales. Brutes are great. Their precise location is north of the Trackers’ Camp on a small patch of grass. if your party is too big, the Allies might mess up your whole tactic, cause the creeper to pull them all in or immobilise everybody. Anyone beated it? I found that fight extremely hard. Wartales is an open world RPG in which you lead a group of mercenaries in their search for wealth across a medieval continent torn. Wartales Public Bug Tracker. You'll also find the red symbol painted in the NE corner. It is found at Reed Farm, which is southwest of Lord Vernalis' Castle. The boss gets way too many turns since it counts "allies" as useful player characters whereas in reality they just got used as healing meat fodder for the boss. It is its own adventure and can be done whenever you like. Speak with the lady to the left of the table to start the. No outcomes are changed. . Dans cette vidéo pour Wartales, découvrez l'exploration complète du Tombeau de Drombach, dans le Comté de Drombach. • Drombach Tomb; Guides; BuildsThe Fate of Drombach • The Price of Drinking • First Aid (Drombach) • In Vivo • Discreet and Daring • Rational Beliefs • Experiments and Consequences; Maps • Tiltren County. wasted 20 hours. The Curse of Harag is an optional Objective in Drombach County. It is found at the Sentinel Tower, which is west of the Vertrusian Jail. Edited for new info. Joren wants you. You will find out about it from an Emissary first, but you can also run into him on your own. You should have gone there for the Hidden in the. Vertruse Tomb 70% 32 at lvl 10 3m area. (Default hotkey [w]) Reaching level 8 in the respective Paths with start the first of a 5-part quest chain. I got all the others: builder, combatent, artist, explorer, general and merchant. +1. From the very first minute, your mercenary troop is dropped into a wild and violent world where wolves and bandits are out to get you. Abduction is an optional Objective in Drombach County. . It plonks you into a fairly mundane medieval world - in the sense that there are no wizards, magic, elves, or grand dramas. By corsaire170. Forgotten Cave in Drombach. Very interesting. Complete Drombach arena then go to Trapper Hut Duelist: Former Glory and/or Folk Practice (?) Complete Berna's Arena (Grimneer), then head for Rouste Field Barbarian: Spiritual Heir (Grimneer Stables)Missing is one of the key Objectives you must complete to decide the fate of Ludern Region. There are three battles,. You start it at the Harag Border Crossing by talking to Professor Hadwige. Same situation here. It was a broken quest from the early access era. Add and vote up suggestions for Wartales. . I killed him on second try while having 5 mercs (+ support of course (I'm playing on scaling mode)). The boss gets way too many turns since it counts. These are several ways to light your way in the combat map: Characters equipped with torches provide constant light. oh snap, like a HM slave in pokemon! but for Wartales lol. You find it at the Drombach Jail which is south of Old Glorios’ Sheepfold. Any help?The goal is to complete 33/34 Drombach, THEN Ludern to Alazar side, THEN go back to Drombach to get the Alazar p. It is in the south part of Drombach County, and the closest. . All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos News Guides Reviews. They wield daggers and other weapons in their off-hand to give them an advantage over enemies. Snag some treasure and an Artist's Codex for your trouble. Wartales > General Discussions > Topic Details. The Wartales Wiki is a place for discussing, researching, and cataloging everything about Wartales. Wartales update 1. When going for this boss it’s. #4. Steal or grab the enemy’s ball if you can. When proccing the poison with the dagger, I dealt like 600 damage (boss had 2200 at the start of combat and was around 900 when the poison got procced). Sell at Garussa (for 198) or Gosenberg (for 197). A Tale of Redemption is an optional Objective in Drombach County. I’d advise you to have the following before entering Vertruse Tomb if you want to completely clear it: six torches (more if you want to equip and use more than two or three in combat), a Scholar, a Miner, and an Angler (professions don’t need to be high ranked). Wartales. I started a fresh game when v1. Suggested by: Brett (26 Apr) • Upvoted: 20 Oct • Comments: 1. Region-Locked Drombach at level 6 sounds terrifying, unless you have a party of 20 bears or. #5. Mapoko May 23 @ 11:54am. This is only available if you completed. there's a pass to there at west of the plain where you fight the bandit boss (If I remember it right). The Vertruse Tomb is the tomb in the Vertruse Province. (Image credit: Shiro Games) The rubble pile that leads to the room with the third rune. Not in the game yet. . ARFett Apr 30 @ 1:22pm. A place of knowledge and discovery, it is where the cure for the Plague was once developed. It. For example, I just entered the final room of Ludern's tomb as I type this, and while I entered with a whopping 15 torches, I only have 4 left. Explore the world, recruit companions, collect bounties and unravel the secrets of the tombs of the ancients!Wartales Grinmeer Province Map Average. While this is the location of a key Objective, this is. jpg. WARTALES WIKI 178 articles • 235 files • 2,158 edits. Date Posted: Jun 1 @ 5:48pm. Lets Play of WARTALES on HARD / HARD difficulty. Go back to the castle and see if it will trigger. any tips on beating the misshappen creeper in the drombach tomb? this guy does half screen wide aoe attacks, attacks twice a turn, pushes any stabbers back and heals itself basically for the full damage done in a round. First Aid is one of the key Objectives in Drombach County. Ddemonstrating free border crossing methods and labeling knowledge books, hidden treasures, bosses, underworld agents, and camp gear. Per page: 15 30 50. Wartales Injured Thief Objective Guide Injured Thief is an optional Objective in Tiltren County. It doesnt work at all. While the battle may not look intimidating at first (Level 3 for Region-locked players), it's a difficult battle if you. Showing 1 - 15 of 57 comments. Anyone beated it? I found that fight extremely hard. You can find it northeast of the Trackers’ Camp, and it is west of the Hoevendorp Mine. I don't feel engaged or hooked aside from the Drombach County Scenario which actually made me think about the consequences of my action. Wartales > General Discussions > Topic Details. Combat in a tomb of the ancients. Leaves more to be desired (other specs clearly better; very niche) Credit for the. Sport in a storm: Defeat the Drombachian team in a game of rouste. . I just kind of hoped that after all that waiting for 1. Unlike other tombs, it is part of The Fate of Ludern and can only be accessed during the final act. Wartales Drombach Tomb Guide The Drombach Tomb is the tomb in Drombach County. The Creeper King at Drombach Tomb is a formidable creature in Wartales. . but just can't find the last two locations and the small tomb in Drombach, been running around for days and still nothing, can someone kindly give me some tips?. Introduction. Apr 17th, 2023 09:21 Discuss (2 Comments) Wartales 1. Sinister Cave – Golden Key. Explore the world, recruit companions, collect bounties and unravel the secrets of the tombs of the ancients!The Fate of Drombach • The Price of Drinking • First Aid (Drombach) • In Vivo • Discreet and Daring • Rational Beliefs • Experiments and Consequences; Maps • Tiltren County. . You can now head to other lands and decide their fate. . You'll also find a puzzle on the east wall and the yellow symbol painted on the west wall. The Ambassador’s Secrets is one of the key Objectives you must complete in . It is north of the Artists’ Square. You can also knock. I am bugged with the innkeeper and the scholar camp like many others, but I think I'm also bugged with the Celestial Mountain Gate. One of the joys of playing RPGs is finding top-tier loot and Wartales is no exception. it seems Drombach is like a giant step back in story. Wartales. Suggested by:. Divine Rupture is an optional Objective in Drombach County. The Fate of Drombach • The Price of Drinking • First Aid (Drombach) • In Vivo • Discreet and Daring • Rational Beliefs • Experiments and Consequences; Maps • Tiltren County. Welcome to our Wartales (2023) walkthrough & guide! This walkthrough will cover the Wartales adventure from start to finish, helping you navigate the world and find all the side quests. Hi guys. 0 is out now! Wartales launches out of Early Access with a new region, new content, community requests and more! Attention mercenaries! The 1. The Lectern is unlocked when your Scholar levels up to Apprentice. Prize Specimen is an optional Objective in Grinmeer Province. Anyone beated it? I found that fight extremely hard. Finished the game. The workers demand better conditions and want you to negotiate with their boss. Entering the cave will trigger an encounter with Bears which you cannot avoid. Related:Here is an (incomplete) list of where things are, will update it later. Kaghal, the Ghost of Harag is a special encounter in the County of Arthes. When going for this boss it’s always good to have a really good tank with your team. Wartales – Full Detailed Maps (Secrets, Knowledge Books, Treasures, Bosses, POI) The four first regions (Tiltren, Vertruse, Arthes, and Ludern) on a 100% map guide, including Mount Altis. Take part in the Rouste tournament! The rules of Rouste have changed: you will now. 1. If you side with the Refugees, you must overthrow Lady Mayoress Gontrande and her forces. Anyone beated it? I found that fight extremely hard. Ce guide en Français déroule la quête principale du jeu dans le premier comté : Tiltren. stock up on torches, at least half your team should carry torches. You find it at The Jugglers’ Camp, which is east of Brownrock Town. Related: How to beat the Creeper King at Drombach Tomb in Wartales Amber. He hired the Rooks as a client to murder Broker Hoevendorp in order to get the other arena back. The tactic is simply put, tank it and run in and damage it and run out. It's at the , which is south of Stromkapp. (Two Statue Room). Drombach In Vivo quest. The Alazar. File:Wartales Fate Grinmeer 2. Wartales is an open world RPG in which you lead a group of mercenaries in their search for wealth across a massive medieval universe. You can convince the workers with 60 Influence to get them to resume work. Hunting down the local champion of Drombach and Alazar, the wanted KRISTOFF KRUPPE. once you complete the main quest you will be told to go to the ruins. Has anyone managed to finish the new Tomb in Drombach? I still cant defeat that creature which you face on one of the storyline quests. The Fate of Drombach • The Price of Drinking • First Aid (Drombach) • In Vivo • Discreet and Daring • Rational Beliefs • Experiments and Consequences; Maps • Tiltren County. Entering the Celestial Mountain Gate and discover the truth about the Eyes Reckoning and the disaster which. The Lectern is used to decipher Codex entries and research/discover items from ancient treasures. The Ludern Tomb is the tomb in Ludern Region. Wartales > Discusiones generales > Detalles del tema. I just killed the Dromback Tomb boss on non-adaptive. Here is a good strategy: The boss self heals depending on the amount of targets it hits with its aoe attack. 0 release introduces two new Tombs of The Ancients; the Vertruse Tomb and Drombach Tomb i. Date: 11/1/2022. Caves and mines. All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos News Guides Reviews. It is found in Sophy Adr Alazar Laboratory which is north of Hulberg. Bozza 9 Thg11 @ 1:15am. The Fate of Tiltren. Ludern - Farm Moritagre We arrive at the farm and speak with the people and at the end when we speak with family after save the daughter we have a bit of a bug with. i am stuck inside the tomb and can neither progress not return to the entrance, because. We are not Monsters is an optional Objective in County of Arthes. For Drombach tomb, you can use a piton in the area north of it to gain access. . Wartales > General Discussions > Topic Details. Yeah Gosenberg had a better storyline then Drombach. The Fate of Drombach • The Price of Drinking • First Aid (Drombach) • In Vivo • Discreet and Daring • Rational Beliefs • Experiments and Consequences; Maps • Tiltren County. Blud Jun 15 @ 8:40am. Exploring Drombach and the region of Alazar finding some really nice looking points of interest, like the ca. Just 5 regional quest not even tied together at all. 2021. 0 release, we are excited to share our plans for the rest of 2023 in the form of an updated roadmap, as always, let us know what you think of what's to come! Lets Play of WARTALES on HARD / HARD difficulty. He (it?) is able to effortlessly launch really wide AOE attacks, pushes stabbers back, do. Some. valuable box in drombach tomb. The Wartales Wiki is a place for discussing, researching, and cataloging everything about Wartales. Antuán Kerbage. Wartaled: Drombach Tomb Floor Puzzle Solution. Dig Site is an optional Objective in Drombach County. Alazar for me. The Tomb System is also great with puzzles, light mechanics, and stuff. Nothing goes to Waste is an optional Objective in County of Arthes. • Drombach Tomb; Guides; Capture a few Yeti. I just kind of hoped that after all that waiting for 1. I have finished all the tombs, I just have to fight the giant creeper boss in Drombach Tomb . Your quest rewards will even be rimsteel equipment at level 9 and 150 coin. . Given how new the game is, the wiki is very incomplete. The Fate of Drombach • The Price of Drinking • First Aid (Drombach) • In Vivo • Discreet and Daring • Rational Beliefs • Experiments and Consequences; Maps • Tiltren County. I've got over 430 hours played on Wartales and still love it. Wartales. . Unlike combat elsewhere, the combat map is pitch black and companions can only attack enemies or use abilities when targets are illuminated. The Fate of Drombach • The Price of Drinking • First Aid (Drombach) • In Vivo • Discreet and Daring • Rational Beliefs • Experiments and Consequences; Maps • Tiltren County. Wartales County of Arthes Map Average. The jail is empty except for a few people and you can’t. ; A taste for comfort: Collect 5 camp material. One of the earliest available legendary weapons in Wartales is the two-handed mace, Lucilla. You. I am stuck on 80% here. It’s the only way to have your Scholar gain experience outside of a Tomb of the Ancients. Check near the tent to find. navarras May 23 @ 7:47am. You must use a Piton to lower yourself down or you won’t be able to go inside. . The Tiltren Tomb of the Ancients in Wartales is the first tomb you’ll encounter in game. Not the best Bravery skill ever, but it’s not like three rounds of autocritting and extra damage is useless. Read the official Wartales patch notes details here. Sarda Apr 29 @ 9:08am. Vertruse Tomb 19 - Brownrock Town 20 - Alazar Abode 21 - Saint Lenaid’s Abbey 22 - Flooded Mine 23 - Iron Mine 24 - Drombach Border Crossing 25 - Jugglers. . tnx just realized you have to rotate the map just to climb. Drombach County is the final region to explore in Wartales and it can be a tough area. CCK Sep 6, 2022 @ 8:31pm. Gems. 8 - Grinmeer Tomb 9 - Hoevendorp Mine 10 - Rat Infestation 11 - Great Growler Cave. i. First, you need to guess which 3 runes are needed for the book. Applies 2 Corrosion and Poison 1h Axe Joras Vanquish Mission (Arthas) 60-80% 6 at lvl 3 Wrist-Breaker: On critical hit, applies Disarm to the target for 1 round 2h Axe Splitter Vertruse Boss 90% 68 at lvl 11 Dmg to area . Just 5 regional quest not even tied together at all. Lets Play of WARTALES on HARD / HARD difficulty. Anyone beated it? I found that fight extremely hard. I just finished Athes' Tomb, well I think I do: I had about 3-4 fights (including the one with the Lord of The Ring bucket thing) 2 puzzles. 0. Troublesome Neighbours is an optional Objective in County of Arthes. Image by Pro Game Guides. This is the first of three symbols you’ll need to find to complete the Tiltren Tomb puzzle. If you are playing region locked Drombach is the last region, intended for lvl 11-12 characters just keep that in mind. Don't forget the power of weakening him and try not to encircle boss. #1. Last updated: 25th July 2022 (Added Tiltren Tomb, Mount Altis mini-region) 5 Comments. Matthias Lund Guide. Take the northwest path going past the Saint Eleor. death2all. The twohanded mace Lucilla is trash don't bother and its boss (lund) is the hardest of the 5. This isn’t your traditional Trackers’ Camp even though it. Very soft end to a pretty decent foundation of a game. o. . - a dead explorer 2 rooms after that last one (SE, then NE). Added a warning inviting players to verify their game files or to reinstall the game if it detects potential corrupted files. Experienced combat difficulty, tried expert difficulty, but the amours were getting demolished very fast and the repair materials got hard to get after a few fights, option. i'm wondering if there is something i've missed so i can actually beat the fight (like some event). Unlike combat elsewhere, the combat map is pitch black and companions can only attack enemies or use abilities when targets are illuminated. No one will be spared, we need to go to the hardest fight we ever had. CREEPER KING! Wartales New Vertruse & Drombach Tomb Explo…Wartaled: Drombach Tomb Floor Puzzle Solution. Expert survival was easy to handle, free save and adaptive exploration. Browse all gaming. 26636 . The regular 2m AOE that he keeps spaming, sometimes multiple times in a row which is what you will need to tank mainly. Old Wilburt’s sheepfold – Ornate Key. araxdebold Apr 19 @ 6:27pm. Aman, thanks for confirming my suspicions. It is found at the , southeast of the Nerprun Clan Village and south of the Secluded Cottage. Hours spent leveling from 9 to 11 then your done. 0, there would be some sort of conclusion to Wartales. We have prepared an interactive map to help you. Matthias Lund is a Champion (Level 5) located at Tiltren County, near of Stromkapp Mill. there will be a piton already installed so you can go up. . Aww : (. Arenas easy, tombs easy, the hardest fight was against the tomb king in Drombach tomb. Boss has 2 attacks. For Adaptive players, the. Wartales, the open-world RPG developed by Shiro Games, is finally out of early access. It is slightly southwest of Bernna’s Arena. For Adaptive players, the. Per page: 15 30 50. It is found in The Scholar’s Choice Market in New-Asthel, on the north side. 1 - Plateau Stables 2 - Stromkapp 3 - Tiltren Jail 4 - Guard Outpost 5 - Sinister Cave 6 - Woodland Farm 7 - Rat Infestation #1Aman, thanks for confirming my suspicions. Tune in tomorrow for an in-depth look at Community Update #1 hosted by Antoine (Game Designer) & Dylan (Community Manager) from the Wartales team! r/WarTalesGame • Community Update #1 is out now, and to celebrate Wartales is 20% off!Anyone beated it? I found that fight extremely hard. All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos News Guides Reviews. The red rune is located in the room next to the puzzle mechanism. Maybe I didn't loot the sarcophagus for some reason. Objective Guide. Greetings everyone, I have a problem with the main quest: despite I found the seekers in the tomb and defeated the creeper king, the quest asking me to find the scholars doesn't disappear from my map (purple circle and Eye's token). The Fate of Arthes. This guide is about endgame quests from Paths. Wartales. The Curse of Harag is an optional Objective in Drombach County. Average Enemy Level 1-3 (Region-Locked only) . Also cloth and wood is normally also sold at vendors quite often. The Creeper King at Drombach Tomb is a formidable creature in Wartales. So, try to tank it with a bear and keep all other mercs. . However I've only got 8 runes, so I think I might be missing one. The Fate of Drombach • The Price of Drinking • First Aid (Drombach) • In Vivo • Discreet and Daring • Rational Beliefs • Experiments and Consequences; Maps • Tiltren County. When I went there yesterday with my lvl 7 group on the Adaptative playthrough the boss had 2556 HP. Speak to the woman on the left (Waltraud for the. Anyone beated it? I found that fight extremely hard. By nature, this is a list of Spoilers. For Region-locked players, it’s home to the most powerful enemies in the game. As a note, some of the achievements can act as spoilers as they are based on story quests later in the game. Closed Trapdoor is an optional Objective in Ludern Region. It is found at the Drombach Stables which is northwest of Hulberg. Missing Items (spoilers) 1. Speak to the lady. The second rune location. ; In and out, nobody gets hurt: Do not lose. Follow the road that leads southwest from the town and then take the first left turn heading south. Browse game. Underground Massacre is an optional Objective in Grinmeer Province. During the WarTales walkthrough we will solve All Puzzles and Secrets. Those are all 115 Wartales achievements. No one will be spared, we need to go to the hardest fight we ever had. Explore the world, recruit companions, collect bounties and unravel the secrets of the tombs of the ancients!While strategy RPG Wartales largely lets you explore at your own pace, the map is broken down into zones. Lets Play of WARTALES on HARD / HARD difficulty. So how does one defeat him?The basic idea to beat the Misshapen Creeper is to use a tank (with armor), to distract. I've completed 3 tombs so far: Tiltren, Vertruse & Arthes. Listen guys lets go to the end of dungeon waste a lot of light then backtrack to the step on stone puzzle, that has a Circle Diagram,. . 2/ use your other troops to make hit and run on the misshappen creeper, making sure that they get out of the range of his AoE attack. The fate of Drombach: Finish the Drombach scenario. 12. When a Scholar is assigned to the Lectern, Knowledge will passively be. You must complete Divine Rupture first or you cannot access the Lighthouse. At some point the boss started getting 3 consecutive. Strategies. All Wartales Achievements. Restarted the battle so many times, burned out and I uninstalled went to bed woke up 8 hours. I can't find the Artists Codex 1 and the Explorers Codex 3. Ludern - Farm Moritagre We arrive at the farm and speak with the people and at the end when we speak with family after save the daughter we have a bit of a bug with. For the map markers, they are 33/34 of Places and 33/34 of Green Ticks. All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos News Guides Reviews. Check near the tent to find. Now, prepare to lead a group of unscrupulous characters in a. The guy is so OP, my mercs are all lvl 12 apart from 2 of them and still.